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- Does Slavery still exist in the U.S?
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| Does Slavery still exist in the U.S? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 20 2014, 02:55 PM (1,107 Views) | |
| Pookie | Jan 20 2014, 02:55 PM Post #1 |
Pookie Powa!
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I am not talking in a literal sense with African Americans, but I wanted to bring this up because I noticed something today when I walked into Walmart. My dad talks about it a lot too because of how difficult his job is. He mentioned how his managers, throughout his career at the company, pushed him to do work they wouldn't touch. Since my dad is a hard and honest worker, he gets taken advantage of. He works long hours so that his company can save money. Basically, if the company makes 900 that day and the workers were the ones who slaved their bodies for that job , the honest workers only get 300 for that time while the managers, who did nothing, get the full 900. While my dad makes good money, there are people who don't. My brother was an example at his last job, but I won't get into that. What I noticed today in Walmart is that managers get better pay, do less, and get better hours than normal store associates/dep managers who work for minimum wage, get up earlier, and slave their bodies away. I looked at this and thought about it. While slaves never gained profit like today's workers, in some forms I see it as slavery because of the hierarchy system. There are honest people who work hard, but get paid less than their bosses and are taken advantage of. Their are higher ups who profit off of the "back-breaking" work of others which is an issue in my eyes. I don't work for Walmart. I'm a vendor for them, and this is why I noticed it. While I am looking for another job, the job I have now is flexible. I make better money than most of the workers in there for doing less. Unfortunately, I have to work hard too, communicate with all the managers, and work at home with projects. With that said, do any of you believe that some form of slavery exists in America even today? Edited by Pookie, Jan 20 2014, 03:00 PM.
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| * Mitas | Jan 20 2014, 03:18 PM Post #2 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
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Slavery is when someone is forced to work against their will, for no money. So no it doesn't exist in the USA. Or at least your example is not even close to slavery, and to be honest it's pretty disrespectful to compare it to slavery considering what people in slavery went through. I can see where you're coming from, but these managers often started working in the lower jobs themselves and worked their way up to higher positions, so they 'earned' their position. I know it doesn't always work that way as some people are given more opportunities than others, but as a general rule that's what happens. The managers don't 'do nothing'. They have responsibilities such as arranging the workers' shifts, ensuring the company runs smoothly, dealing with employees, hiring people etc. Just because they aren't on the shopfloor doesn't mean they are doing nothing. It comes down to this: the workers in your examples chose to work in that role. They knew the wages they would be given and they knew what the job entailed. And if they are disappointed with it, then they can quit and find another job. Slaves didn't have a choice, and were made to work much harder, given little to no rights, and were not compensated for their labour. |
 "Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
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| lunar2 | Jan 20 2014, 03:34 PM Post #3 |
 
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slavery does exist in the U.S., but what you posted was not an example of slavery. yes, managers make more money than the people they manage. that's the way it is supposed to be. managers are responsible for all the employees under them. it is their responsibility to organize schedules, order stock, maintain discipline, interact with customers, ensure that all the necessary work is done, and when someone can't come in, do that job themselves. managers are trained to be able to perform every position of the employees under them. they have a lot of paperwork they have to do that employees don't. in most companies they are on salary, and end up making less per hour worked than the better paid employees under them. and when any of their employees screw up, they are the ones who have to fix the problem and deal with their own bosses, because they are responsible for the employees under them. so yeah, damn right they make more money than their employees. their job may not always be harder, but it is more stressful. anyway, yes. slavery, as in the forced to work for little or no money slavery, does exist in the U.S. legally, if you are incarcerated, you are a slave to the state for the duration of your incarceration. they can force you to work without pay, and if they do pay you, it is generally an insulting amount of change, less than a dollar per hour. the state of texas, for example, pays nothing, and over 90% of its inmates have some sort of job. about half of them end up in the fields, where they are not provided proper safety equipment, and are made to work sometimes solely for the purpose of making them work. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Pookie | Jan 20 2014, 07:08 PM Post #4 |
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Pookie Powa!
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If someone does not work in the U.S, they likely will end up homeless or not have food to eat. In a sense, people are "forced" to work to survive. Basically, a pay check is what makes it "okay" from what I gathered with your first paragraph. I was wrong to compare it to slavery, but it's still terrible. I've watched what managers do, and they don't do anything that is considered difficult, yet get paid a SIGNIFICANT amount more. My father is someone who definitely works his a*** off. While he gets paid well, he has to break his back doing it. I speak with managers all the time because it is part of my job. A lot of those managers did not start from the bottom as a lot of people like to point out. Of course, there are managers who have put in hard work to get to the top, but it's not as common today. Unfortunately, that is not how it works now and days. Those "hard working" managers were either hired out of favors or promoted because they had friends in the system like Mitas suggested for some instances. The "hard work" philosophy does not apply to the instances that I have observed. Yes, people did agree to their wages, but the scale of wages that separate the top management to the bottom store associates is HUGE. Mitas you make it seem like quitting a job is easy. It is easier said than done. They could quit and "try" to look for another job. I'd say good luck doing that with how jobs are today, therefore, they are stuck especially if they are from a lower income community. I want you to look at a Walmart manager's wage from the top to the very bottom. The gap is atrocious. The retail managers here make more than 100,000 year. You have assistant mangers who make 40,000, then department managers who work miserable hours for 11/hr, and lastly you get the part timers/associates who make minimum wage. Also, when you look at the social environment of retail stores, you see primarily Latino and African American groups. What does that tell me? It tells me that America hasn't progressed enough. I don't need to read it from an article or see it on t.v because I see it. I have to talk in Spanish with almost all the workers, and I live near urban areas so my experience is first hand. While work conditions are no where near as bad as slavery was in the past, it is something to think about. @Lunar- I did not know that about prisoners. It's interesting how the system can be abused. @T-Connor- Yeah, I would consider it very unfair. Edited by Pookie, Jan 20 2014, 07:20 PM.
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| Goddess Ultimecia | Jan 20 2014, 07:12 PM Post #5 |
 
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There's illegal slavery in the U.S. I.E. The body trafficking and sex slaves and what not. But I don't think what you showed could be considered slavery more than let's say unfair. |
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| + Pelador | Jan 20 2014, 08:41 PM Post #6 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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It just sounds like capitalism to me. They tried making a system where workers were more equal and they ended up with communism. Didn't turn out too well. There are a lot of things that need improving or changing but the politicians don't care. As long as they get to live a cozy life for doing very little then they aren't going to try and change anything. For instance why do employers at restaurants get away with not paying their staff minimum wage? It's disgusting. |
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| Kienzan | Jan 20 2014, 08:47 PM Post #7 |
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Sorry, haven't read the other posts so I don't know if this has been said. It isn't slavery because you guys are after all getting paid and can quit whenever you want. You aren't being forced to work there. As for why hard working staff get paid higher than guys that just sit around, well thats just capitalism for you. |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jan 20 2014, 09:43 PM Post #8 |
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I remember seeing a NEWS headline a couple years ago where this huge sex slave ring was busted just a few blocks from the White House in Washington DC. This obviously wasn't publicized hugely because it would be embarrassing for our government to admit that a completely illegal activity was happening literally right under their noses, and they really had no idea. So slavery does indeed exist in the US, just not usually in the workforce. There are plenty of loopholes in the legal system that allows these employers to maneuver around ethical practices. People need to remember that the term "legal" in the US doesn't always mean that something is ethical or fair. To use an example of this ethical vs legal system, I will refer your attention to the completely unrelated Treyvon Martin case. What George Zimmerman did was indeed unethical, but legally he did not commit a crime. Therefore the jury couldn't convict him. It's not that the Jury agreed with what he did, they just couldn't legally convict him because the law gave him the right to do what he did. Therefore Justice was indeed served in the context of the US legal system, it's just not the "justice" that people wanted. So going back to the employment thing, the only thing that is required by companies in the US is to pay you at least a federally regulated wage for the hours that you work, and any subsequent OT that comes along. This is unless you live in a state where health insurance is a requirement for these companies to offer, regardless if it's the crappiest insurance on the market. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 20 2014, 09:53 PM.
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 The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| + Steve | Jan 20 2014, 10:33 PM Post #9 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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I think work life is summed up in this picture. I would say that it in a sense is slavery you are forced to work or end up homeless and dead. You couldn't go chop down a few trees put loads of work in and build a house and live off the land, why not? What makes the world leaders own that land? They didn't make it, if it's not being used it should be fine to live there but it is not so you're forced to work just to survive so in that sense you are not free. You choose whether or not you have whatever job but you have to have one if you're not disabled or ill in some way. Having to pay for hospital bills is a kind of slavery too everyone is going to get ill or injured at some point and if you don't have a job you're forced in to debt for something that might not have been your fault just because you don't have insurance. Everyone is basically a slave to the monetary system and it's really kind of silly. I wonder if people will ever actually get paid for the work they put in? Like someone on a politicians wage should be charging in to battle or curing cancer etc but that's not how it is and it needs to change, but will it ever... |
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| lunar2 | Jan 21 2014, 01:00 AM Post #10 |
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the treyvon martin case is a bad example. because what george zimmerman did was not self defense, by ethical or legal standards. this is proven by his numerous lies about what happened that night, and the portions of his speech and behavior that was recorded. the jury were simply a bunch of bigots who couldn't see past the fact that treyvon was a black teen in a hoodie. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| * Ketchup Revenge | Jan 21 2014, 01:24 AM Post #11 |
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
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I don't want to go off on some non-slavery related subject because that's not the subject of the thread, but the jury did exactly what the American justice system is designed to do. It's not about what actually happened, it's about what you can prove happened. And the only solid account of what happened was Zimmerman's account. You can't legally convict someone of a crime if there's not enough evidence to support the account that opposes theirs. I have no doubts that the guy should be rotting in jail for what he did, but the American justice system is about giving everyone (no matter how haneous a crime they commit) a neutral and fair trial based on evidence and the laws that they did or didn't break, not punishing people for immoral behavior. He was let go due to a loophole in the Stand Your Ground law, not because the Jurors agreed with what he did. In addition to this, at least one of the six jurors was a black woman who could've easily protested an "innocent" verdict, so pulling the race card doesn't really work in this case. I'd be happy to discuss this with you off this thread, being that it doesn't really relate to this subject. Edited by Ketchup Revenge, Jan 21 2014, 01:25 AM.
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The vengeance is her's for as long as she stands by Him. | |
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| SaiyanHajime | Jan 21 2014, 01:37 AM Post #12 |
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An unfortunate fact of life is this... Retail clerk A is good at their job. They interact with customers well, they work hard, they know everything there is to know about what they sell and they sell well. Retail clerk B isn't as great at any of these things. But they've got an attitude that is, basically, the audacity to think they can achieve more. So they go after the supervisor role. Get it. Then they go after the manager role, and get it. Now, they may have sucked at that bottom job, but they might be awesome as a manager. Or they might not. Either way, people who are too good at what they do get stuck. Don't get stuck. Have the audacity to move on. Managers in retail are, in my experience, all pretty useless. They rarely have good work ethic or a desire to get stuck in. A good manager sets example and gains respect from their team, especially in a job where so many of the team are going to be so young. But they just don't care and bully everyone. As for actually being on topic. One way in which minimum wage jobs really do create a slavery like environment is how so few of these are actually giving the minimum wage. Per hour they are, sure, but annually? Full time, reliable min wage jobs just don't exist. Everywhere is 0 hour contracts. You end up with people working 3 min wage jobs and still barely scraping the hours to make enough money. And of course, because they're not full time, they don't get any of the employment benefits. It's so cruel. Edited by SaiyanHajime, Jan 21 2014, 01:38 AM.
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| lunar2 | Jan 21 2014, 03:29 AM Post #13 |
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I'm just going to say, on the self defense issue, that in self defense cases the burden of proof is legally on the defense to prove their lives were in danger, not on the prosecution to prove it was not. it doesn't matter if zimmerman's story is the only one there is, his story was obviously false. in a self defense case, you are guilty until proven innocent, because you are admitting to committing the crime. also, black people can be racist against black people, too. it's much more common than you think. and that's all i have to say on the subject. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Jan 21 2014, 03:39 AM Post #14 |
Formerly known as daman
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Well the US isn't really alone on it but yes you could say "wage slavery" exists. Slavery has not always been the same from culture to culture and has varied greatly throughout history or place (eg-indentured servants who are tied to a debt of some kind (sometimes a technically "voluntary" one) and released after a certain time and chattel slavery like what was used in the US, or also in the Islamic world (not the same as the US-style since they often had different roles in society(mainly soldiers and the service sector), had to be treated for illnesses, were freed more often and in some cases they became rulers (look up any Mamluk dynasty) and other variations I don't know much about). I'm not an expert but it seems like the two things all forms of slavery have in common are either being legally owned by someone else and being forced to work in some capacity. While legally someone on a wage that's barely enough to maintain their accommodation and buy food (or in certain cases not even enough to do that...eg-25% of homeless in Oregon are employed according to the US Dept of Housing and Urban Development) is not being forced to work they are practically being forced to work seeing as the alternative is often to go and live/beg/steal on the streets and rely on local organised charity, since unemployment compensation is only given to people who have been laid off, usually due to downsizing, and the when the job market is saturated it's not like you can just say "I'll get a better job". If you're on a very low wage you're not legally owned by anyone else either. You could say there's a similarity between indentured servants having a contract of a few years with an owner (so basically being rented) and someone going to work and having to follow orders while they work, but seems like a stretch to me. Overall I do basically think that wages that are barely enough to scrape by on are modern slavery. Of course in the majority of cases people do have more freedom than old-style slaves (even indentured servants could be treated very badly), although there are obviously also cases where people are treated particularly bad by employers, even in the US. Same basic idea of getting as much labour for as little as possible. Luckily some places have better legislation to protect workers that others. There is also slavery without wages involved still in existence today (UN estimates 27 million people worldwide), which is apparently more than ever. Hardly any of those people are in the US or pass though the US though. |
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Jan 21 2014, 03:44 AM Post #15 |
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On the topic of retail, it really depends on what company you're referring to. Walmart and Target managers may not have the best work ethic, but the managers where I work (a bookstore) are all incredibly hard-working and definitely deserve their positions. And they treat the employees very well, too. |
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